Carol Fishman Cohen: Welcome to 3,2,1 iRelaunch, the podcast where we discuss return to work strategies, advice, and success stories. I'm Carol Fishman Cohen, CEO and co-founder of iRelaunch and your host. Before we get started, I want to remind our listeners who are actively relaunching to make sure to register and upload your resume to our iRelaunch Job Board.

Employers looking to hire relaunchers regularly peruse our Job Board for candidates for their career reentry jobs and programs, so, please remember to do that. And let's move on to our podcast conversation now. Today we welcome Samantha Orlando, Senior Systems Engineer, F16 training systems at Lockheed Martin.

Samantha, who has a bachelor's degree in ocean engineering from Florida Atlantic University started her career in 2003 as a systems engineer at Lockheed Martin, where she built underwater vehicles. A decade later, Samantha resigned for medical reasons in March, 2021. She resumed her engineering career by returning to Lockheed Martin through their career reentry program, Chapter Next. We don't often have the opportunity to speak with relaunchers whose career break was for health reasons, in addition to relaunching a technical career at their pre-care break employer. Thank you, Samantha for sharing your relaunch success story and welcome to 3,2,1 iRelaunch.

Samantha Orlando: Thank you very much. It's wonderful to be here.

Carol Fishman Cohen: Well, let's start by talking about your 10 year career at Lockheed Martin before your career break. Can you give us a synopsis of that time?

Samantha Orlando: Sure. So like you said, I did graduate with an ocean engineering degree in May of 2003, and I started working for Lockheed Martin in July of 2003, and I loved my job.

I was good at my job. We did amazing stuff down there. The technology was just so cool, like we did really neat stuff. And in November of 2004 is when I first got sick. So it was from 2004 to 2013 when I finally had to resign. I was in and out of the hospital trying to do 40 hours of work a week, onsite, nights, weekends, like our programs were very high, were very short programs, and there was a lot of offshore testing and stuff.

My coworkers down there were amazing. They were like a second family. They, every time I was in the hospital, they were always so worried and so happy when I was back. And I loved it. I loved my job and it broke my heart when I had to make the decision to leave. And when I did decide to leave, I had already gone down to part-time work and I was working mostly remotely, which at the time wasn't like the thing. And at that point it just was, it was like, I just can't do this anymore, 'cause I didn't want to let the group I worked with down, I didn't want them waiting on me for something. And so it just, the writing was on the wall and it just didn't crash and burn, it just fizzled out.

Carol Fishman Cohen: So, how long did you end up being on career break and at what point did you feel like you were well enough to come back to work?

Samantha Orlando: So it's not like a switch was flipped, so to speak. I had, my health struggles were ridiculous and they still are. And I have had nine surgeries. I stopped counting hospital stays, more medications than I care to count. And we actually moved for my husband's job in July of 2016. And when we did that, I was not in good shape, and that year they actually didn't make me to ex, they didn't expect me to make it to Christmas. So, I did, and with what they did to me then, that slowly started me on the journey to what I call better enough.

I'm not where I was before I took my career break by any stretch of the imagination, but I'm so much better than I was when I had to take the career break that we've made it work. In July of 2020 was when I had surgery number seven, I think. I don't know. I've lost count. But anyway, whatever they, what they did that one, that was like they flipped a switch and my fatigue was gone and I was able to do things. My mind wasn't fuzzy, it was fantastic, and I was able to start doing stuff again. So I started volunteering. I currently volunteer with our local chapter of the Navy League, and I help plan the Navy Ball every year, which is lots of fun and also a lot of work. I also volunteer at my daughter's school and I run the Able and Allies Group at Lockheed Martin at our facility, which is our group, our business resource group for folks with disabilities or caregivers of folks with disabilities, and it helps. So, when I started volunteering, I was like, okay, maybe I do, I could go back to work at some point.

So, I started putting feelers out to people I still knew at Lockheed Martin. And they were all like, Oh yeah, we'll take you back. Can you come, and they wanted me 40 hours a week on site the whole time. And the facility that we're currently at is huge. Like huge. We were at a very small facility previously.

Now we're at a very big facility. So to park in the parking lot and get to where my desk was like a half a mile, at a minimum. And I said, Okay, the goal is not to kill Samantha. I can't come back full-time, so I put my search, if you'd call it on the back burner. And then when Covid hit, obviously everybody was home. And my daughter was home from school and my husband, who also works for the company was home. And a friend of mine called and she said, Hey, Have you heard about this Chapter Next program? I'm like, no, I don't hear anything. I don't work there anymore. And she said, I think it would be, she's like, it's right up your alley.

And she said, it's part-time, it's a hundred percent virtual now because of Covid. She's and there's a time limit. So if you, at the end of it, decide, yeah, I really can't do this, then you part ways. Nobody's mad. You didn't burn any bridges, like you're hired as an intern. And I'm like, okay, I could try that.

So I talked to my husband about it and my daughter and they were like, okay, yeah, no, that's fine. And so I did and I applied and I interviewed and, I got the call right before Christmas, I think right after Christmas of 2019 or 2020 that said, yeah, when could you start? So I started in March of 2021 and I've pretty much been doing the same thing ever since.

I was very lucky to be able to work with a few people that I knew in my past Lockheed life.

Carol Fishman Cohen: Yeah, I was wondering.

Samantha Orlando: That was very helpful.

Carol Fishman Cohen: So did you come back into a similar group than what you left or a different group?

Samantha Orlando: Different in the technology we work on, similar in, I'm still a systems engineer doing systems engineering things.

There's a lot more software than hardware, which is a flip from my last role was more hardware than software. So there's been a learning curve for me on software 'cause I cannot code to save my life, but I know people who can. So as long as I understand what it's supposed to do, I'm pretty good.

Carol Fishman Cohen: All right, so that was one of my questions. Did you try to stay updated in any way in your field while you were on career break? And maybe if it wasn't during your career break because of your health condition, once you had that surgery that sort of flipped the switch, was there any kind of technological upskilling or re-skilling?

Samantha Orlando: So if the question is more geared towards, did I take any classes or anything like that, the answer is no. I am an absolute super nerd and I will be the first to admit it. So when my husband and I talk about work I heard all about everything that was going on at Lockheed Martin that he could talk about

since I stopped working, so I knew who was doing what, what programs were still going, what of our programs that I worked on had successes. And then once we relocated and he started working at the site we're at now, I heard about all those things. So I didn't lose, this is gonna sound weird, but I didn't lose any of my technical know-how, based on the type of engineer I am. I didn't have to learn a new type of computer code. I didn't have to learn how to render drawings and a new drawing. there's a couple new program that, programs that were new to me, but from a technical standpoint, I pretty much kept up on everything that was going on just from talking with my friends and peers that I knew and keeping up with the news and the, the, what's the magazine that that I read, oh, Popular Science.

Carol Fishman Cohen: Ah, okay.

Samantha Orlando: Popular Science, because that's the one that you see and it's like, oh, and then 10 years, you're like, oh wait, hey, it came true. Some of that's always fun to, to see happen and some of it's like never gonna happen.

Carol Fishman Cohen: You know, I'm glad you made the distinct, the distinction between coursework.

When we think about upskilling and re-skilling, we think about it pretty broadly in all its different forms, and it doesn't necessarily have to be formal coursework. It could be reading certain relevant journals and having conversations with people in the field and having an awareness of how things are evolving, and a curiosity about what's behind that. And that is part of upskilling and reskilling. It was pretty unique that you had a situation where your husband was working for the company and you had friends in the area working for Lockheed Martin. And so you had this extra channel to stay connected and that sounds like it, it was a really important piece.

And I guess the other thing I'll say is that one of the great things about career reentry programs like Chapter Next is to reconnect with alumni, with people who used to work for the company who now can come back through the program. And that's exactly what happened with you. So I love to see an example of that.

So, thank you for talking about that part. So it sounds like you didn't really embark on a sort of traditional job search in a sense. The, this happened or were you in the middle of that when this conversation happened that made you aware of Chapter Next?

Samantha Orlando: No, I'm probably gonna be different than a lot of your relaunchers, just from the fact that I, I'm not quite sure how to word this, but when I stopped, when I had to stop working, there came a point where I didn't think I was going to get better. And I had pretty much resigned myself to, I will do my best to function, literally, function get through the day and help out with my family the best I can, but I never expected to be able to come back to work, ever. And then when the pandemic hit, my doctors were very specific that, pre-vaccine, if I got Covid, it would kill me. There was no uncertain terms. So I didn't even think about it. It's like going into the office. No, there's no going back to work. This is not an option. When the Chapter Next, like it, it fell into my lap.

And the discussion was, if you're gonna try, 'cause you're feeling better, you're doing all this volunteer stuff, you're gonna try, this is the way to try. And when I realized, my funny side note to this. So once I applied and interviewed and was, I got the Chapter Next returnship, they sent out a list to first line manager saying, Hey, here are these people who need are coming back to work and would anybody like to work with them? Here's their resumes, et cetera. And my name was on the list. So my boss, who I've known for 18 years, called my husband and said, is Samantha coming back? And he said, yeah.

He's like, is there a plan? Is she going somewhere? And he's like, no. He's like, all right, I got her. And so my name, the standing joke at work was, my name was on the list for literally a minute and a half. Yeah. It was very flattering and I'm glad that my, my awesomeness from way back when was still carried over to today.

Carol Fishman Cohen: Okay. I just wanna hone in on that because, that exact point, because first of all, obviously you were doing tremendous work before you took the career break and, there had a whole team and your boss who had so much respect for you and really couldn't wait for you to come back and you were gone over like an eight year period, is that right? And so there's an eight year period that you were not there. All of a sudden your name's back on this list and your manager is instantly saying, I want Samantha on my team, erasing the sort of the eight year length of career break and jumping right back to where you left off.

We call that being frozen in time, that managers have a frozen in time view of you and they remember you as you were when you were working for them, and whatever has transpired during the years of career break, they don't know anything about that. Or maybe they know a little bit, but not that much, and they're focused on what you were doing before. So this is the perfect illustration of that. I just wanted to highlight that for our listeners.

Samantha Orlando: So just keep in mind. I didn't look like this when I stopped working. For those in the audience, I'm five foot six, I was 80 pounds when I finally, when we finally moved. And I was sick. I was really sick.

And so everybody from my old work life who had seen me last, saw me looking really close to Jack Skellington from Nightmare Before Christmas. And I don't use that lightly. So once I came back and I was doing worlds better by the way, now I'm five foot six and 120 pounds, I'm happy to tell everybody my weight, because there was a long time there where it was scary. So there's been a lot of shrieking every time I've seen people that haven't seen me in eight to 10 years now. I'll, on the days I do go on site, I'll be walking down this huge hallway we have, and all of a sudden I'll hear. Oh my God, Samantha, and you hear this shriek and everybody turns around and I get tackled by somebody in a hug because I had been so sick for so long and everybody that I used to work with was just, like, they were in it with me if they could have been.

So it's been wonderful to come back to them seeing me, every time I see a, my, a friend of mine, she's I just have to hug you every time. She's cause I can't, I just can't. So it's very sweet, but it's, it, luckily, yes, my work product is still really good, but it's been more the physical change that, that everybody's noticed.

And I was so sick at the very end of my 10 years that my product was not great, let's just face it. But everybody knew what I was capable of and so now that I was better, they were hoping, they were, A, they were just happy to see me, was really what it was.

Carol Fishman Cohen: Yeah. I also just want to comment that has must have a lot to do with the culture at Lockheed Martin.

Samantha Orlando: And, it really does.

Carol Fishman Cohen: Yeah. So everything you're describing about really being surrounded almost by a second family of people who deeply cared about you and still do and are overjoyed with the idea that you're back and, I also think that your comments are really important, specifically from the standpoint of someone who took a career break for health reasons.

Because you're talking about the reality of what you looked like before and what you look like now, and that is often part of a medical situation. So thank you for bringing that piece up as well. Can you talk to us a little bit about once you were done with the returnship and then you convert to an employee status, did your job change at all or was it like you were returnship on a Friday and then on Monday you were an employee and it was pretty seamless.

Samantha Orlando: It for me, I worked with the same team in the same job, still part-time, still remote, so I didn't really notice a very big transition. The only thing, I think there was another welcome meeting, like when you get brought over as an employee, there's a couple of, welcome to Lockheed, here's all the stuff about the benefits, like those things. But as far as the day-to-day work, since it wasn't anywhere different, it was the same group I was working with, I didn't notice much of a difference. The beauty of working for Lockheed Martin and the Chapter Next program for me was the part-time. I still have doctor's appointments.

I still have stuff that needs to get done. It's not fun, but, working part-time, I can take half a day off on a Wednesday and still make my hours for the week without a problem. And it gives me the peace of mind to know that I can take care of myself. I can still make deadlines, and everybody that I work with is at least aware of some part of the story. We know Samantha's got issues. Let's face that Samantha has issues. But we also know that if she's out, my calendar is ridiculously up to date because I don't want anybody ever looking for me like I left them hanging when I'm at a doctor's appointment or something.

And most of, most people I've worked on, I've worked on the same set of programs, but I've worked with a number of different departments and a number of different people, and when most of them actually, when all of them find out that I work part-time, none of them believe me because everything they've ever asked of me has gotten done in a timely manner.

I've, they're never looking for something, like, Samantha said she'd get it done by four o'clock on Wednesday. I got it by four thirty on Wednesday. I don't have to look for Samantha on Thursday. It's amazing to me how easily the part-time like flows into the week and gives me the flexibility I need while also enabling me to get everything done and nobody's complaining to my boss that I'm not sending them anything.

That's been great. Working, the part-time has also helped me, I'm the site lead for our business resource group for Able and Allies, which is a group for people with disabilities, which is very close to my heart, 'cause looking at me, you wouldn't see somebody with disabilities. But mine are hidden and chronic and not fun.

And a lot of folks, when you say people with disabilities, automatically they think they can't, they can't work at the same caliber that people without disabilities can. And I am living proof that they absolutely can. Not only that, most of us can do it better because we have to deal with all of these other challenges.

Carol Fishman Cohen: Well, thank you for pointing that out. And also, I just, I want to point out how unique Chapter Next is in terms of having part-time opportunities and really needy, substantive, like critical work that is being done, but is being done on a part-time basis. And also, as you described, Samantha, the idea that you, you figure out how to produce your work product and you get, you work that around whatever flexibility you need in your schedule for your doctor's appointments or whatever else that you're doing, and you're delivering. You're demonstrating high productivity, high level, work product with a flexible schedule.

So you're sending a pretty powerful message to managers as well as to other relaunchers who might be in a situation similar to yours who are looking to get back. And I just wanted to highlight that for our listening audience, that your messaging is really important for managers to hear, as, as much as it's important for relaunchers to hear.

Samantha Orlando: Thank you. The beauty, the other beauty of Chapter Next was one of my fears, or my fundamental fear ever since I got sick was that I would leave my team hanging. I wouldn't be able to finish. I wouldn't be able to do. I hadn't touched Excel, Outlook, PowerPoint. I didn't touch these things in close to 10, eight years, 10 years?

I don't know. I don't remember when I started, like the timeline is all messy in my head, but I was gone for years and I'm like, I don't even know what Outlook looks like anymore. And the girl that I spoke to about Chapter Next, she's oh no, we retrain you in all of the standard things you're going to use, and then we give you a couple of " free training sessions." So, based on your specific job, you can go in and take a training based on one of the new programs that you've never seen, but doesn't really apply to the entire company. So I got trained. I'd never used Skype. Skype didn't exist when I started. I think the instant messenger function of Skype had just come in, like just come into play at like my last couple of years there.

But it wasn't the meeting feature, it wasn't the video feature. Took a 30 minute training on Skype. I'm now like the Skype expert. Nobody else had been training like I learned so much about all the new things in Outlook, all the new things in Excel. So that was a huge help. Because I'm like, I used to know how to program Excel like that, like just a little tiny bit.

And oh, that changed and this changed. And it's oh, but this is better and this is better. And I'm like, oh, good to know. And then with the new program, the new computer programs that I'm using in my daily job, one of them had just come out when I had to resign, and I had never, I had worked with it like this much, and of course the features now are far more.

So I took a training on that, that was one of my free ones. And then problem tracking, that was another new one that I'd never seen before. And so I got trained on that. So that's what I truly loved. It wasn't like they were just dumping you into a job. They were training you on all the parts you've missed over the years, and there was training on how to have an interview.

Some of it were interpersonal things because let's face it, whether or not you've been out sick or you've been stay at home mom, or you've been out for caring for a parent, if you've been out of the workforce for 10 years and your whole wardrobe has been shorts and t-shirts, I don't know how to interview. I don't remember how to interview. The last time I interviewed was 2003. It's now 2020, 2020. You want me to interview? Does my suit still fit? So it was that for me that was, as you can probably tell, I'm extremely outgoing. I'm extremely nice. I'm extremely blunt, so I didn't really have a problem, but I know that so many people do.

They're like, what do I even say about how I took a break? And for me it was simple and honest. I was too sick to continue working. I had to resign and it broke my heart. But I'm much, much better now, and I'm able to come back and be a productive member of society and partake in the workforce and hopefully make a difference.

Carol Fishman Cohen: Wow. Thank you for demonstrating that, to actually hear the words that you spoke is really helpful for our audience, we appreciate that. Tell us a little bit more about the support structure that was within the Chapter Next program, beyond the coursework that you were taking. And can you also make a comment about one aspect of that updating, like for example, on the Excel, was this like a Lockheed Martin University course that, where that was offered or was it a live course or was it online and, what was your relationship with the other people that were going through the Chapter Next program or who had already graduated from it.

Samantha Orlando: Okay. So for the trainings, they were not, there were a couple of live trainings depending on what it was. So like for my specific job, there were a couple of live trainings, but from Chapter Next, they're not Lockheed Martin University. I don't remember the name of the platform they were through.

It is an external one that we work with. They were recorded, but I wanna say they, they were really good. Like they were really good. They would, they, so for the Excel one, for the Excel, and I wanna say the PowerPoint, but don't quote me on the PowerPoint. For the Excel one, it had you download a spreadsheet.

And you could go one to one and do it, I mean, you could pause the video and go back, pause and rewound many times on a couple of things. I'm like, this doesn't make sense. So you know, you were able to work it at your own pace, which is very helpful for people who have learning disabilities or dyslexia or ADHD, that the, I can work on it at my own pace was very helpful.

So not just for me, but for other folks. The other folks in my cohort were wonderful. We did meet up a few times. We would have lunch for 30 minutes and just chat about how things were going. And we were provided a mentor who's a previous member of a Chapter Next cohort. So I had a mentor and now that I've graduated the program, I have been a mentor and I've been invited to speak at a few of the round tables that they have with the new cohorts and share my story, 'cause to your point in the very beginning of the podcast, I am one of the rare ones that had a medical disability and was able to come back to the workforce. And since I have shared my story as often as I have, I've had people at the company reach out to me. One gentleman who was in my cohort, he wasn't, he, we had, we have guys in our cohorts and his work break, he had actually started his own company, and it went well for many years and then it didn't go well anymore, so he decided he needed to come back and this was his way of getting back into the workforce, working for a company again.

Another gentleman I talked to had a horrific car accident and is very lucky to be still with us, so his whole world changed and he was out of work for I think four to five years, and now it's, he has the same problem, not a problem, but he has the same challenge I do. How do you explain to people, yes, I have medical challenges, but I'm still an awesome employee.

And so we're trying to change the dynamic there. So it's not, I know sometimes when you hear, oh, I'm relaunching their career, everybody is assumes A, it's a woman, and B, they stay home to take care of their children. And while there's a ton of those folks, there are so many more who don't even know that they can.

And that's, I am the first person to say, I will share my story with anybody who wants to listen, because my hope is that I, oh, I can do it. You can do it too. Maybe not. I'm not about to say yes just because I did it, you can. There may be a different way to go about it. It may not look just like it did when you stopped working, but there's room for everybody and you'd be amazed how productive you can be even with your new normal.

Carol Fishman Cohen: That's great. Well, thank you for all of that. And I think you're absolutely right. You know at iRelaunch, we look at relaunching and relaunchers very broadly, way beyond people who take career breaks for childcare reasons. Of course, as you're saying, the predominant, the largest sub segment of other relauncher population probably falls under that category.

But yes, we have relaunchers who are in Chapter Next as you're illustrating and a whole range of career reentry programs for very different reasons of taking their career breaks. So I'm glad you're highlighting that. And also the specific situation where there is some medical or health issue involved.

Alright. As we're wrapping up, I want to, I asked you, I think three questions wrapped into one now. So one of the ones I wanted to check in with you on was that transition from the returnship to employee. Was that pretty seamless and you're doing pretty much the same thing? Or did anything change when you made that transition?

Samantha Orlando: My title changed. That's pretty much it. For me, now, this may change for everybody, but for me it was transparent. I, it was the same program. My boss handled all of the paperwork. I had to sign some things. But other than the whole, like starting a new job paperwork part of it is really the only difference that there was for me.

Nobody treated me any differently. Although my, the standing joke, the other standing joke at work is when my, my title said intern, they all thought I was like 22. So when we all met in person for the first time, I'm like, I'm Samantha Orlando. They're like, Huh. I'm like, I know. Like, I thought you were younger.

I'm like, I won't take that personally. Yeah. But I've educated a whole bunch of people about Chapter Next and how just because it's an intern doesn't mean they're 22. It's been fun.

It's been a dream.

Carol Fishman Cohen: Life experience. It's an internship life experience for mid-career professionals. Yeah, stereotype busting is a big piece of the whole career reentry programming and institutional shift, and it happens person by person. And when there are examples like yours, Samantha, they're very powerful and very influential.

So as we're wrapping up, can you answer one more question before I ask you the final question that I ask all of our podcast guests? And that is on the home front, when you went back or anything outside of the actual work piece of going back, because as we all know, relaunching is a life transition both professionally and personally. Any comments on the routine at home or anything that was going on that was notable to you or any family members?

Samantha Orlando: So mine's a little different. Because I was sick for so long, my daughter would come home from school and it would be, she would be scared, honestly, every time my husband had to take me to the doctor, because I'll call it 50% of the time, I would end up in the hospital. So when she would come home from school, she would worry all day if mommy was gonna be in the hospital when she got home from school.

So when, I've probably had the most supportive family because quite honestly, they're happy I'm still here, which sounds awful, but it, over the course of my illness, I should have been dead twice. And of course, my mom's probably gonna listen to this and she's gonna start crying. But it's true. So the fact that I'm not, and the fact that I'm well enough to come back to work, be productive, argue with people, make an impact, spread the word about people with disabilities and how they can function and do all of those things, my, my daughter's thrilled. My, she was so excited. She actually made me take a first day of work picture 'cause we make her do the first day of school picture.

So she made the two of us, we took a first day of work. And my, after I'd been working for a year on my art desk in the, in my office, my husband's like, okay, we need to get you a real desk like, you're gonna stay. And he's, they've been so supportive. And my folks live not far from us, so they've helped with kid pick up occasionally and drop off depending on meetings and stuff.

But, everybody's been just so happy that I'm able to do this, that we really haven't had a problem. We do eat out a lot more or order in, because nobody has time to cook at that point. Yep. But we're, my husband did most of the cooking anyway, 'cause I was so sick for so long that I'm trying to function like there was no cooking involved.

So it's been an adjustment, but it's been a really good one.

Carol Fishman Cohen: Oh, wow. Thank you for sharing all of that. It is really emotional and, I can imagine what your mother will feel when she's listening to this. So, Samantha, I wanna wrap up with the question that we ask all of our podcast guests, and that is, what is your best piece of advice for our relauncher audience, even if it's something that we've already talked about today?

Samantha Orlando: So my best piece of advice is, it is gonna be hard. Adjusting to a new normal is always hard, whether you're a mom who's been home for many years taking care of kids, or if you've been home taking care of a loved one who's had a chronic or terminal disease, or if you yourself have been dealing with health issues, you're not the same person you were when you left the workforce the first time. And that's okay. It's okay to not be the same person you were. Don't try to be the same person that you were. You, you'll drive yourself crazy if you try and fit into a mold that no longer exists. So focus being the best version of the new you. And you'll be amazing.

Carol Fishman Cohen: Thank you that , that's really specific advice, especially for relaunchers. Who have taken a career break for health reasons, and we appreciate you talking very directly to that part of our community.

Samantha, thank you so much for joining us today.

Samantha Orlando: You're very welcome. It's been wonderful. Thank you for having me.

Carol Fishman Cohen: And thanks for listening to 3,2,1 iRelaunch, the podcast where we discuss return to work strategies, advice, and success stories. I'm Carol Fishman Cohen, CEO and co-founder of iRelaunch and your host.

I want to remind our listeners to take advantage of all the resources we have at iRelaunch.Com, get on our mailing list to get our weekly Return to Work Report, register on our Job Board, and to take advantage of everything that we have to offer. We spend a lot of time on developing those resources just for you.

And thank you so much for joining us today.