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Episode 160: Framing a "Crisp" Message - with Miranda Kalinowski, Global Head of Recruiting at Facebook

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Episode Description

Concluding our series on the nuts and bolts of the recruiting process, Guest Podcast Host, Cheryl McGee Wallace speaks with Miranda Kalinowski, Global Head of Recruiting at Facebook to discuss their reentry program. With more than 30 years of recruiting experience, Miranda shares practical advice for relaunchers on the importance of a “crisp” message, mapping skills to requirements throughout the recruiting process.

Read Transcript

Cheryl McGee Wallace: Welcome to 3,2,1 iRelaunch, the podcast where we discuss strategies, advice, and success stories about returning to work after a career break. I'm Cheryl McGee Wallace, special advisor to iRelaunch, and your host for today. As part of our series on the nuts and bolts of the recruiting process, we're gleaning practical advice for relaunchers from a range of experienced recruiters from companies with and without return to work programs. Today, we welcome Miranda Kalinowski, Head of Global Recruiting for Facebook. We'll discuss Facebook's 16 week return to work program in more detail in a moment. We at iRelaunch have long looked forward to speaking with Miranda, who has more than 30 years of recruiting experience in the US and abroad. For nearly seven years Miranda has led the Global Recruiting team at Facebook, helping it to grow from 6,000 employees to more than 56,000 today.

Hi Miranda, welcome to 3,2,1 iRelaunch.

Miranda Kalinowski: Hi, Cheryl, great to be here.

Cheryl McGee Wallace: I can only imagine how busy you must be, so thank you very much for taking time to join us. Before we begin, can you briefly tell us a little bit more about your background and experience as a recruiter?

Miranda Kalinowski: Absolutely. Well, you touched on a little bit of it in the intro, but, from a personal standpoint, I'm a mother of two young adults. I don't know where that time went. I've got a 22 and a 19 year old. I'm from Australia. You might've been able to tell, pick up the accent. On a personal note, I was born to a single mum who herself was a recruiter.

So I'm one of those very rare beasts who joined recruiting intentionally. I've been, as you mentioned, doing it now since I was 21. So for 30 years at this point I have been absolutely delighted with being part of people's career choices and helping them make the match.

Cheryl McGee Wallace: That's great. So let's dig into some of our interview questions here. Facebook has a return to work program, which I understand is expanding. Could you tell us more about it?

Miranda Kalinowski: Absolutely. So we have had a return to work program now for a couple of years. The program goes for over the course of 16 weeks. We typically have at least two cohorts every year, one in the spring in the US, and another one in the fall. And over this 16 week period, members will join teams where they have both impact and an opportunity to build their technical and program management skills. And they get the help and support from managers and mentors and peers. I think one thing to know about this 16 week program is that at the end of it, for those who are able to demonstrate their abilities, they get an opportunity to be considered for full-time positions.

Cheryl McGee Wallace: That's really great. I know these return to work programs are absolutely amazing opportunities for relaunchers. The program offers technical and non-technical roles. What are the most sought after skills?

Miranda Kalinowski: So for our return to work program, this specific program, and we have a number of pathway programs into Facebook, but I'll focus on the return to work one here. We've hired across different roles for our tech teams mainly, so technical program management, data science, operations program management and capacity engineering are just a few to mention. I think of those, the most sought after from a demand perspective at Facebook, right now at least, is our technical program manager roles. For those, we look for people who do have, even if it's dated, they have experience, some level of experience, three plus years of experience in engineering or technical program management in their past.

And for the return to work program, we are targeting folks who have been out of the workforce, the paid workforce, for two plus years.

Cheryl McGee Wallace: Great. And where are the positions located? Are they in California, across the US, abroad?

Miranda Kalinowski: All of the above. When we started this in 2018, we only had it in our head office headquarters in Menlo Park, California. But because it's been so successful, Cheryl, we've expanded it. We now have openings in not only Menlo Park, but Seattle and Boston in the US. And we are actually launching for the first time our program in Europe. We've got openings in Dublin, Ireland, and they're actually open now, if you go to our career site.

Cheryl McGee Wallace: So would it be the same application process, if relaunchers were looking abroad, is there one location where they would submit their application, or do they go to each one of those locations?

Miranda Kalinowski: If you go to our career site,, you literally just type in return to work, all of the offerings, whether it's in the US or Dublin will appear. And then you can walk through a fairly intuitive process to apply.

Cheryl McGee Wallace: And what are the eligibility requirements? You mentioned a two year break. What else would there be? What else should relaunchers be thinking about?

Miranda Kalinowski: Well, the first thing is because it's a 16 week program, you do need to be available for those consecutive 16 weeks. So availability is what I call one of the hygiene factors.

As you mentioned, they've left the workforce for two years or longer and are looking to reenter full time. Albeit they need to be starting with that 16 week stint. We typically look for candidates who have at least four to five years of previous relevant work experience even if it's dated so that we can help bring that back up to recent capability.

So for each of the positions, because they're slightly different, whether it's the technical program manager or a data scientist, for instance, or operations, they'll have their own requirements listed at the bottom of the job description. And so you should look to that to show you what strengths would need to call for those particular positions.

Cheryl McGee Wallace: And how big is the cohort?

Miranda Kalinowski: We've seen this grow 3X since 2018. It's now in the hundreds across the world. So it's material for us and we're finding it incredibly successful, and that's why it continues to expand.

Cheryl McGee Wallace: That's wonderful. Roughly speaking, what are your retention rates?

Miranda Kalinowski: They've been high. We certainly see great conversion into full-time positions, which is why we continue to use it as a really valuable source for us.

Cheryl McGee Wallace: Okay. Great. And another question I had was, how long has Facebook been offering the program? How many years?

Miranda Kalinowski: We started it in 2018. So it's still pretty embryonic, but it continues to get better and better as more hiring managers across Facebook really see the value in it, and so too do the participants.

Cheryl McGee Wallace: When I advise relaunchers, I explain that much of the advice they receive during this period will stand them in good stead throughout their careers. So as we launch into our discussion, it's important to emphasize that much of this information is not necessarily specific to relaunchers. Would you agree with that?

Miranda Kalinowski: Absolutely.

Cheryl McGee Wallace: Now with that in mind, let's dive into the details of the recruiting process. Facebook is reputed to have idiosyncratic hiring processes. How would you say Facebook's recruiting process differs from the typical firm, generally speaking, regardless of role, what are you looking for and specifically what are builders?

Miranda Kalinowski: Absolutely. Well, Cheryl, there's a lot in that question. So in terms of the idiosyncrasies of the hiring process, we do use interviews that help to set a realistic job preview, and assess candidates against the expectations of those positions, which is pretty standard actually across the tech sector and frankly, many other firms or companies.

So I think that in terms of what we're looking for, regardless of role, we really are looking for people who believe in our mission. And this is the same for many other companies. They want to know that you're invested in the mission and what direction the company's headed in. Facebook's mission is to give people the power to build community and bring the world closer together.

So we're looking for people who can speak to the value of that and whether or not it resonates with them. When you mentioned builders, at first, when I heard that term when I started, I was thinking, "That's not me." I wouldn't characterize myself as a builder. But regardless, really of whether you're hiring an engineer or a finance analyst, or even a recruiting lead, we look for people who like building, and it could be building a process or building a team. It could be building morale. And so it's people that aren't satisfied with the status quo. They love creating new things and figuring out how to continuously improve and problem solve. So that's what we mean when we say, builders.

Cheryl McGee Wallace: So that would be highly proactive, relatively assertive people, like you said, who are not happy with the status quo. That's great framing for hiring.

Recruiters have a reputation for being gatekeepers of a company. In fact, one of our most frequently asked questions deals with getting the recruiter's attention. What advice do you have for relaunchers seeking a role with your firm, or indeed any firm?

Miranda Kalinowski: Yeah. Look, and I absolutely understand where this question is coming from. I'm going to answer it obviously as a recruiter, and I think this perspective is widely held, the black hole and so on. If you think about it, effective recruiters are goaled with matching qualified candidates to open positions and assessing them for future placement or consideration.

Many recruiters obviously are dealing with very high volumes of applications and that's very true today, obviously given all of the implications coming out of the pandemic. So if a candidate is able to amplify how their skills and strengths align to those, the position for which they're applying calls for, this makes the recruiter's role easier.

It's much tougher for a recruiter to help a candidate if that candidate isn't crisp about their skills and their strengths and what they want to do, and if they haven't done any research into the various functions or teams within the company. And of course, much of this information now is so transparent and publicly available, that there's really no reason you can't, as a candidate, do that research. I recommend particularly for relaunchers, but as you said before, for everyone, start by knowing what your skills are and what your strengths are. And when I say strengths, those things that when you're doing them, you're really losing track of time because you're so absorbed into them.

And think about what those primary and secondary skills are. Getting a resume that claims that someone is all things to all people is just unrealistic and unwieldy to manage in terms of matching to opportunities if you're a recruiter. So, narrow it down to those sort of primary and secondary things.

That's the first one, knowing your skills and strengths. The second one would be, thoroughly research the company you're targeting and the teams and the roles you're applying for, so that you can do as much of that mapping to job requirements as you possibly can, obviously without being in this role.

So your approach to a recruiter might be something like, "I see in this role, X is important, here is where I have experience or skills in that," or "Here's my passion about building those," if I don't have them.

Cheryl McGee Wallace: That's great. And one question along those similar lines is, we know the statistics that women usually only apply for a job if they meet upwards of 90% of the requirements, but men may apply for roles, even if they meet less than half.

How would you recommend someone calibrate that balance between saying, I have some of the skills and the potential versus something that's just too far off base.

Miranda Kalinowski: Look, I think this comes down to confidence, but also interpretation of what you've done, the skills you've amassed, where you've gotten that experience. It's not as literal as you'd expect, insofar as if you've been out of the workforce for some period of time. Many times the activities you've been doing, being able to build skills, build networks, relationships, and strengths are of value to employers. So it's taking a broader view of the experience that you've amassed and translating that into what the position is asking for.

Being able to communicate that is the most important thing. Look, I wouldn't say you have to have 9 out of 10 or 5 out of 10. It's just a matter of how you're interpreting what you've done and the needs of the position and being able to communicate it.

Cheryl McGee Wallace: Great. Thank you for clarifying that. What kinds of resumes do you like to see ideally, any specific length or format?

Miranda Kalinowski: So I think typically we'd encourage candidates to have a resume of not more than two to three pages. And as I mentioned, we do recommend that you highlight those core skills and the impact, importantly, the impact that you've made over the more recent past, whether that's from paid or unpaid work in the workplace or in the community, it's still incredibly important. So two to three pages, as I mentioned before, if you're listing all of these things, it's important just to highlight a couple that you consider to be your biggest strengths or areas that you really want to spend the most of your time doing, and focus rather than trying to be a generalist, I think would be a bit of advice I have.

Cheryl McGee Wallace: That's really great advice. One of the things that we encourage of relaunchers, is to make sure that they're focused on the role that they want, the type of opportunity and doing that skills mapping that you discussed earlier, because some are very eager to identify and secure that first role that they may say something to the effect of, “I'm willing to do anything,” and that doesn't help them, and it definitely doesn't help the recruiter.

Miranda Kalinowski: No. That's exactly right. And I would just add to that, Cheryl, that, when you're listing specific skills or technical competencies on your resume, make sure you've got a deep enough understanding so that if an interviewer probes you on the topic, you feel comfortable talking about it.

Cheryl McGee Wallace: Yes, I think that's very important to highlight. What are recruiters seeking in initial screening interviews? How can applicants, relaunchers in particular, prepare for screening calls?

Miranda Kalinowski: From an initial screening interview, it's trying to get to an understanding of the background of the individual, where they've spent their time, what are those things that they'd call their strengths? We do look for technical skills in most of our roles, but it's also very important for us to bring in people who believe in our mission. So we're asking about, why Facebook? Why now? Really trying to understand the shared values that we have. Are people enthusiastic about the program? If so, what is their motivation for being enthusiastic about it? Are they proactive and ambitious? Are they eager to learn and develop or reactivate skills? They're really getting to the heart of that motivation and some of the softer skills.

In terms of preparing for those screening calls, really trying to understand the roles, qualifications, and your recruiter can actually play a role in this, to discuss with them the expectations going into that interview.

What can you expect? And how can we be best prepared? The recruiter again, is motivated to make a successful match. And so they are going to be available to you as an advisor. We don't have trick questions, like many manhole covers in North America or New York, they're bias traps. Recruiters are there to help you be prepared and it's going to take practice and sometimes talking to yourself in front of a mirror to really build that confidence so that you can have a fairly natural and two way conversation with the interviewer when it happens.

Cheryl McGee Wallace: That's really great. I've also heard the screening call is an opportunity to identify deal breakers, willingness to relocate, although there are legalities about asking a past salary history, there's nothing that prevents an employer from asking salary range. Would you say those are the types of things being brought up in the screening interview?

Miranda Kalinowski: We don't tend to talk about comp in the screening interview, because we're trying to generally understand what the person is looking for and where we can make the match, and that's way too narrow a view to take in the first conversation. But I'm sure there are some deal breakers. If a particular position is in a location that the candidate is not willing to relocate to, it can be a deal breaker for that particular position.

But our recruiters are taking a long the term view than just that one immediate posting that they're evaluating for. And how can we develop a relationship that, if not now, then maybe in the future we can make that match?

Cheryl McGee Wallace: And just another question in this area to drill down a little bit deeper. The screening calls are generally from recruiting or will those be also from the hiring manager or the team that the applicant is targeting? So I'm trying to get to the extent to which a screening call is substantive.

Miranda Kalinowski: Yes. So there's like a pre-screen that the recruiter does. I'm just talking about Facebook's practice, where the recruiter and the candidate are connecting. And that is a more of a general conversation, like the one I've just described. Then there is the technical screen or the first screening interview done with the hiring team, or a representative for that hiring team. And that's more technical in nature depending on the position. And so it's at that technical phone screen, everything's virtual right now, but even when we're in office, these first technical screens are virtual in nature. And they're done by someone who does the job that we're actually recruiting for. They're the closest to it. And they're able to guide that interview and accurately and consistently evaluate.

Cheryl McGee Wallace: Facebook is known for its interview questions. Could you give us an example and explain what you're seeking with such questions?

Miranda Kalinowski: Sure. I think that pretty much in most teams that you're joining, we're interested in hearing examples of where you've overcome a challenging problem, whether it's technical or something that maybe even wasn't work-related.

And as we're talking through that, we're looking or we're listening for experience where you've encountered complex problems or you've identified them yourselves, and you're talking us through the steps that you took to solve it, assuming you did. So you know, we are using the premise that your past sort of performance will predict your future behaviors. So understanding a specific example is important. What was the situation? What did you do? What did you think? What did you say? What did you feel? Really getting into a level of granularity in those discussions, so that you're taking me back to that moment in time and walking me through it.

And when I say challenging problem, we're not rating, "Well, you're saying that's challenging. I don't think that's challenging. Therefore, that's a black mark against you." It is more around, doesn't matter what the problem is, what is the approach you're taking to working through that?

Cheryl McGee Wallace: Great. That's a wonderful example. Can you give us examples of how relaunchers answered questions you or your recruiters asked that were viewed as good or even great answers?

Miranda Kalinowski: Sure. I think that there are just so many, so isolating this to a couple is a bit tricky. Let me think. I think, and this is particularly true now, answers that demonstrate resilience, that demonstrate a learning agility and an ability to navigate new workspace or environments, maybe working within large teams, or working within teams, these are really important skills and abilities to be able to demonstrate. Again, it doesn't really matter the context within which you're talking about that, but those are really necessary to translate into pretty much any of our teams that are hiring right now.

Cheryl McGee Wallace: Many relaunchers are hesitant to ask their own vetting questions during an interview. What questions should a relauncher ask in the interview to help determine appropriate fit for the firm and a specific role?

Miranda Kalinowski: Yeah, this is absolutely important. It's definitely a two way street. So beyond, obviously, questions that will help you familiarize yourself with what the role is and the responsibilities, I think, really think about what are those things that are important to you in the workplace you're wanting to join, the culture of the organization. What support are you going to get and from whom? What are going to be the learning and growth opportunities of the program? What will success and impact look like in this role? How is your performance going to be measured? Those sorts of things. And of course, you might want to get an example of something specific, like a problem that that team's working to solve right now. Or some example of, for this particular team that I'm joining, what's the vision for that team and the role? Where's it going to, so that you can picture yourself being a part of that or not. So it is definitely a two way street. Those sorts of questions, I think, are helpful.

Cheryl McGee Wallace: Great. And before we move on, there's just one other question I wanted to ask you. Now interviews are going to be virtual. The screening call is more likely going to be a screening video chat, not just the phone call. Do you think that has made a difference in the interviewing process, being able to see the other person versus speaking to them on the phone, or actually going into the office and speaking one-to-one in the flesh as it were?

Miranda Kalinowski: It's an interesting question. And I do wonder whether it's a point in time while most of us are working from home now, or if it will live on beyond when people return to the office. I think what I'm seeing is that, there's this deep empathy for each other even if you're strangers, at any point, that someone can walk in behind you and start pulling your hair or tugging on you, pets, and children, and so on. And so there's this empathy that almost in the past would have been unacceptable. We all remember that BBC interviewer. Do you remember that? It went viral because it was just so, but now that's real life it's happening, every meeting I have.

So I think there's that empathy and that's great. I think people are getting used to it, where in the past they might have said, "Look, let's meet face to face. It's going to be much easier for us to make that connection." Now we have to make this work. And I think that the technologies that are being developed, it's taking it from making it work to making it awesome. And it's going to be interesting to see how that plays out.

Cheryl McGee Wallace: I find that in my video chats, I am more likely to ask a person, how are you doing? And actually really mean it. And it becomes a longer part of the conversation because everyone is going through the same thing almost globally, practically globally at this point. So I do agree with you that it does establish somewhat of a more human connection.

Miranda Kalinowski: Definitely. And, you'd probably get to that point in the past, but I think we get there quicker now.

Cheryl McGee Wallace: Yes. I asked relaunchers what they'd ask a recruiter off the record. Most of the questions dealt with negotiations and the fear of "leaving money on the table." Generally speaking, how would you advise candidates to approach salary negotiations?

Miranda Kalinowski: Look, I know there's a lot of sort of anxiety caught up in this. At Facebook where we're very lucky because we've got a very formulaic approach to compensation settings. So for the return to work program, for instance, that I mentioned, we offer the same comp to all returners in line with the role they're applying for and what job family that's in and what location. So it's very formulaic. And there's not frankly much negotiability in that because we're bringing everyone into this at the same rate to begin with. The comp's competitive obviously, and we've designed the program in a way that's fairly compensating everyone who's joining the return to work program and that it's in line with those teammates and peers.

So that was important. But, I would generally say in terms of how to approach salary negotiations, timing is important. If the first thing that you're saying to the representative of that company, whether it's the recruiter that you're speaking to or a hiring manager, is about comp, personally as a recruiter, I would question the motivation, the genuine motivation, behind someone. Yes, that's a hygiene factor that needs to be satisfied, but I would keep that conversation til a bit later in the process.

Cheryl McGee Wallace: Okay, great. That's good to know. The next few questions are really very specific to relaunchers. The first one is probably one of the most important issues that relaunchers are dealing with. How do you think relaunchers should address their career break on their resume and in the interview?

Miranda Kalinowski: First of all, I just think you shouldn't be wearing this career break as a heavy backpack. It should be worn as a badge of honor. And flipping this sort of script on yourself, your confidence around this will build over time, with more practice in interviews, getting back into it again. But be honest and clear. Our return to work program is actually meant for people who have taken two or more years of breaking their career. So we're expecting that to be in there. Certainly no apologies for being out. But do think about opportunities that you've had while you've been out and how that could possibly translate back into a paid work setting and be able to communicate that.

Cheryl McGee Wallace: Great. Some relaunchers struggle with determining the appropriate staff level. Too high, and they're not positioned for success, too low, and they're insufficiently challenged. What's your advice?

Miranda Kalinowski: Look, I think the first thing to do is read the job description. All companies put some sort of basic requirements in their job description. How many years of experience, four plus years, five plus years experience for instance. And it gives you an idea of whether the role is at the right level for you or not.

So at times when you're making a career transition, you may not have the relevant current experience. And so that's why return to work programs and things like this can help you get back up, get that currency back up. But, I think that otherwise it's a conversation. This is what recruiters are there to help guide you through. And every company and role and frankly team can approach this quite differently.

Cheryl McGee Wallace: Depending on the source, the average age at Facebook ranges somewhere between 27 to 30 years old, what advice would you give someone beyond that age range, in some cases well beyond that age range, who might be interested in a role at Facebook?

Miranda Kalinowski: I do think perception lags reality on this. I know that when I was considering Facebook, nearly seven years ago now, I was 45 at the time. I'm now just over 51, and I was concerned about this. And I don't actually know the average age of employees, that's not a data point that I have access to. But I absolutely see as I look across the organization, we have got such a wealth of experience and industries that we recruit from, locations and skills, and obviously we don't differentiate candidates based on age or gender or ethnicity or any other protected characteristics. It's illegal to do that. But we've worked together in teams, drawing from those experiences, life experience, and other work experience. And together that cognitive diversity makes us better. We need it. So I don't even think about that for a second. I'm 51 and I run the recruiting teams.

Cheryl McGee Wallace: That's really great. One more question before we move on. Let's say for example, that a relauncher applies outside the timeframe for the relaunch program, would Facebook consider relauncher applications for other job postings?

Miranda Kalinowski: Oh, sure. Yes. While we've got this return to work program, and that's about two cohorts a year, so spring and fall, and then we've got the one that's live now for Dublin. At any point, relaunchers can look on our career site and apply for any position for which they think they have skills, even if they're not more recent. They can obviously still apply and be considered for those.

We've also got, I mentioned earlier, other pathway programs. We've got a rotational engineering program that hires all year round. You can look at the career side and see the requirements for that. That is intended for people, sometimes that's for people doing a career transition or those that are relaunching, can also be considered for those.

But absolutely.

Cheryl McGee Wallace: Great. So let's talk a little bit about Facebook's culture. Could you describe the culture of Facebook and give an example of what a new employee would be surprised to learn on arrival?

Miranda Kalinowski: So very mission-driven, as I've mentioned, and everyone shares in the appreciation and enthusiasm for the mission, that's a key part of the culture.

I think the other things are our values. So we've got these five values that are signposts that guide how we work, regardless of what team we're on or office you're in. And, so the things like, be open and build social value, move fast, et cetera. But be open, I think was the one that most surprised me. By that I mean, I was really taken aback at how transparent and open both Mark and Sheryl and all the leadership are.

They're very vulnerable around what mistakes they've made, what lessons learned from that, how they think about that moving forward. It's very much a debrief culture. So recognizing, you will make mistakes, but taking some time after the fact to think back, what was planned, what actually happened and what went wrong and why, and what have we learned from it and how we apply that lesson to the future.

And I hadn't been as accustomed to as much open discussion around that, at a previous company. So that was really refreshing.

Cheryl McGee Wallace: Really great. I think something like that is very important and allows employees to be more willing to step up if they don't have to fear the ramifications of a potential failure. Since the pandemic, Facebook permits staff to work from home.

How do you anticipate this change will affect the culture of the firm? And what can you say from it over the last six months?

Miranda Kalinowski: Yes. First of all, that's six months. Wow. It feels a lot longer on one hand. Look, I think the culture is going to continue to evolve. In fact, we've onboarded nearly 12,000 people since we went to work from home back in March.

These are people who, most of whom haven't been in an office, haven't had a face-to-face with anyone. And we have to be incredibly intentional about helping those new hires develop networks and relationships, making sure they're getting feedback and the development opportunities that you'd otherwise get if you were in closer proximity to those that you're working with. Our culture is constantly evolving.

You're not going to hear, "This is the way we've always done it". That won't work here. It's a culture of fast feedback and you always know where you stand. And we're welcoming people from different walks of life and experiences to come and make us better.

Cheryl McGee Wallace: Great. I've thought a lot about the work from home movement and whether it will continue, global pandemic notwithstanding. I personally prefer the office environment because it permits the serendipitous meeting, hearing the scuttlebutt, meeting someone at the coffee stand or in the elevator with whom you'd never crossed paths on a regular basis.

Do you think that would suffer in the work from home movement?

Miranda Kalinowski: I think that the technology has come such a long way, that there are parts of this that are really advantageous. And if you think about the video calls or meetings you're on, everyone, depending on what platform you're using, but everyone shares the same equal, whatever the two by two square on the screen is. And you can more readily see who's trying to say something. Versus, we're always working cross border anyway, state border or country. And oftentimes you're peering in from your office into the congested office at headquarters or something else. And, it's difficult to get a word in.

I think, how fair it is and obvious it is when people are starting and trying to speak and getting a word in is actually a real advantage of everyone being in the same boat. And so even if we return, or when obviously we will return to offices, I think we will start to see elements of the work from home sneak in to every day. There's been talk at Facebook about limiting how many people are in the one room, for instance, obviously for health reasons, but also the benefit of that is that they're not getting the biggest share of voice. So it will be interesting.

Cheryl McGee Wallace: The final question is one that we ask all of our podcast guests, what is your best piece of advice for our relauncher audience, even if it's something we've already talked about today?

Miranda Kalinowski: Look, I think this is such a confidence game. So it's actively working on building or rebuilding your confidence in this context, and your resilience. Because it will likely take some time to build that up. And acknowledging that you may not get to here every single time, but committing to learning from doing debriefs, like I mentioned before. But personally, reflecting on, "Okay, how did that go? This went well. This I could have done better. I need to know more about this. Who can I ask? Where's the expert I can tap into this podcast feedback," et cetera. Just this commitment to going easy on yourself and knowing it's going to take a bit to build up your confidence. But having an intentional plan to do that I think is important.

Cheryl McGee Wallace: That's really great. I do agree about the importance of confidence because the level of confidence can even make the difference between someone making the decision to apply in the first place. So I think that's excellent advice for our audience.

Miranda, thank you very much for joining us today. How can people find out more about Facebook's return to work program?

Miranda Kalinowski: Thanks so much for having me, Cheryl, it's been a delight. So And then if you type in return to work, you will be able to see all about dedicated return to work programs. But otherwise, as I mentioned, by all means you can look to apply for any of the positions that align to your areas of skill and interest.

Cheryl McGee Wallace: Great. Thanks for listening to 3,2,1 iRelaunch, the podcast where we discuss strategies, advice, and success stories about returning to work after a career break. I'm Cheryl McGee Wallace, special advisor to iRelaunch and your host.

For more information on iRelaunch conferences and events, to sign up for our job board and access our return to work tools and resources, please go to

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